Life-Changing Science: The BioBuilder Podcast
Life-Changing Science: The BioBuilder Podcast
Don't Panic - This Is the Hitchhiker's Guide to BioBuilder
A year-end reunion with artists, educators, and students shows how curiosity becomes practice, projects, and careers across bioart, education technology, diagnostics, and materials science. We share real tools, honest challenges, and clear next steps for learning and building.
• Bioart as living practice and display challenges
• Automation shaping creative and scientific workflows
• At-home and classroom biotech kits scaling access
• Simulators and free curricula overcoming logistics
• Bioplastics, biomanufacturing, and practical AI modules
• Student paths into labs, diagnostics, and publishing
• Double majors and interdisciplinary momentum
• Moving from competitions to peer-reviewed research
• AI’s risks and value in authentic learning
• Materials science pivots from first principles
If you're listening to this and you're a student wondering if you belong in science, you do. If you're a teacher wondering if this work matters, it does. Keep asking questions, keep building, keep being curious.
Learn more about BioBuilder's programs for students, educators, and industry professionals here 👉 https://biobuilder.org/
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Hello and welcome to Life Changing Science, the Biability Podcast. I'm your host, Zhan Sidiki, and welcome to the final episode of the year, which happens to be episode 42. Now, if that number means nothing to you, I envy the journey you're about to take. But for those who know, the people who've ever felt slightly out of place in the universe, you'll know that 42 is the number. The answer to life. The universe. Which honestly feels about right for synthetic biology. Because if you've ever stared at a petri dish at 2 a.m., waiting for colonies to grow, wondering if you've prepared it correctly, questioning your career choices, and then seeing that faint blue glow of success. You know that biology is basically the universe asking you riddles and occasionally, occasionally, letting you glimpse the answer. So for this very special episode, we're doing something different. We're not meeting someone new, we're going back. Today we check in. We ask, where are they now? What are they building? What questions are they chasing? So consider this episode your Hitchhiker's Guide to Biobuilder. A retrospective, a reunion, and a reminder that the people who pass through this community don't just disappear into the void. They go on and do extraordinary things. They become artists, educators, researchers, founders, they take what they learn, and then they build. And much like the actual Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the advice I'd give anyone entering the world of synthetic biology is simple. Don't panic, bring a towel, preferably autoclock safe, and never ever trust an E. coli that's growing just too well. It's up to something. Let's dive right into this episode. For my first chat on this special episode, I welcome back someone who proves that biology isn't just science, it's art. Literally. Bioart extraordinaire. Karen Ingram.
SPEAKER_02:I'm I'm Karen Ingram. I'm in episode two of the BioBuilder Podcast. Um, I'm a bioartist and designer, and um I work with microbes a lot. I was recently, or not recently, but uh I guess like two or three years ago, I was at a show at Biobat Arts Base in Brooklyn, New York, and the name of the show was Embodied Futures and the Ecology of Care. And it was in that show that I really got to explore a project that I've been working on for a few years called Biogenetic Blooms. Um yeah, and I I the show was for about six months, and I set up a bakery refrigerator and would put paintings of flowers um in petri dishes made with like yeast and bacteria, and was um was showcasing those in a bakery refrigerator. Um so that was really fun to get to have such a long extended exhibit and think about the challenges with displaying living artwork for such a long period of time. Um yeah, so since then I have moved my practice to Charlotte, North Carolina, and I'm setting up a bioart studio at Makerspace Charlotte. We have our first class tomorrow, and I'm very excited because we've sold out. So that is very promising. I'm looking forward to more classes and um yeah, evolving my practice.
SPEAKER_08:Perfect. So many exciting things going on. I know, you know, it's been, you know, as you said, you were you were in episode two, uh, and and so much has has happened since then. I've moved three continents. Uh uh and when when we talked, you know, uh four years ago almost, um, you were in New York, um, you were, you know, really heavy, heavily involved in sort of the New York biotech scene from you know, working with scientists, working with artists, setting up your own studios. And now you're uh in in North Carolina, so you're in a different state now, and so there's been a big geographical change um since. Um I'm just curious as you know, what does a what is a bio art studio? Is it, you know, in the name itself, you know, we do art with biology.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, yeah, that's that's pretty much it. But for me, like it means that the practice sort of drives the setup of the studio. So my studio, I have several incubators, um, some of them have image capturing capacity. Um, but there's I think there's lots of standard lab equipment that doesn't, that isn't necessary um in a studio because you're really it's it's very much um driven by my specific practice. I'm looking forward to expanding that though, um into different uh, you know, different projects. But yeah, I mean it it's basically moving um the things that I use, like I have an OpenTrans robot, I have a Reshape bioimaging system, I have a Triton bioimaging system, and just kind of working with those. And and I also, you know, I I'm also investigating um the overlap of like food service with my practice, you know, um, because I think there are lots of commonalities, you know, sanitation is important in food service and biology. Um, and I think that well, the handle of art allows me to do those kinds of experiments.
SPEAKER_08:With a lot of the people who came on the Biobuilder Podcast in the first season, um, when I'm, you know, talking to them again, there's so much more integration with like automation. Like you just mentioned uh automation and machines and art and biology. Like it's you know, we were talking about, you know, how biobuilder is so interdisciplinary and people working in the space. Um, it's just sort of exponentially increased in that interdisciplinary nature. Like, do you feel that as well over the past few years, just working in in the space?
SPEAKER_02:Um, yeah, I do. I do. Like, and I also I feel like the lab equipment has evolved. Like when I first was working on the biogenetic blooms project, um, I of course was hand painting and then I was pulling the petri dishes out of the incubator every like two hours and taking photos. And of course, you know, I I lived in a bungalow, and and you know, a bungalow has multiple light sources out outside light, and taking photos of the petri dishes was hard because I couldn't control the light. Um, so you know, it's good for me to get these imaging systems. And also, you know, I like I said, I was hand painting the petri dishes, and then for part of um my practice, I started working with the open trons and using the the open trons to paint images of of flowers. And it was interesting to see the contrast between um how I could shape the image based on droplet size, you know, or the spacing of the droplets and how different it would look. Um, it had more of a watercolor feel, whereas my hand-painted images had, you know, kind of more of like a, I don't know, I guess like a colored pencil. It's just it feels different using the robot. And even like sometimes that would get a very sort of uh Space Invaders type look to it, like very pixelated, very early, like computer, uh, which was also cool. So it was fun for me to explore how working with the robot in different ways and doing hand-painted images would yield different results. And you know, you asked me um what it meant to be a scientist, like for me, and I think that you know, being a bio artist, it's it is a lot like science in that you're kind of exploring different practices and different ways of creating images and and seeing what happens and and tweaking things. So it's an investigation for me.
SPEAKER_08:Thank you so much, Karen. Now, what I love about the Biobuilder community is how interconnected it is. It's less of a network and more of a mycelium. Everything's linked underground in ways you don't expect. Case in point, Karen actually uses kids from our next guest in her workshops. These two have collaborated and created so many times over the past few years, so it only feels right for this to be the next guest in this special podcast, Julie Lego. So Julie is the CEO of Amino Labs and has basically made it her mission to ensure that the next generation doesn't just read about gene editing, they do it at their kitchen table. Like signs should be.
SPEAKER_01:Hi everyone, I'm Julie Lego. And yeah, I was on the first podcast, and actually to your point that it's still going, I had a look today because I wanted to remember what I had said back then. And actually, I was so surprised that there's like five seasons. I'm not a podcast person, so I don't always check into it. But yeah, it's really amazing to see that it's been going so long, and also that there's that much content to share is really, you know, great to hear. So um, but to answer your question, uh so I'm the founder and CEO of Amino Labs, and we also do biotechnology education. We focus more on the student part of the equation. So BioBuilder teaches the teachers, and we uh help teachers get kids into their classroom so that students can really take off and experiment um with, you know, a very simple starting point all the way to gene editing.
SPEAKER_08:I I remember, so yeah, in in that very first episode, we had talked, you know, it was it seems like a you know an alternative reality, you know, 2020. We're all I think we were both still in lockdown. Um I think so. Yeah, it would have been lockdown. And I know we, you know, ByBuilder had gone online, um, and Amino Labs was working with Bybuilder to develop some of their uh what do you call um like at-home kits, like biotech kits. I'm curious about how the the like the evolution of like a take-home biotech kit looks like. Like in 2020, what it was, and how did you feel how how was that journey being of Amino Labs, specifically developing the biotech kits? And then I'll also ask you about developing some sort of the curriculum.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so um so Amino Labs really started in 2015. So in 2020, when we met, um, we had sort of the basic of an at-home learning kit where you had a book, you had um some equipment, so the DNA playground, which is a mini lab that you can use either in the classroom or at home. And then we had a few experiment kits. And those experiment kits start at the very beginning. So, what is DNA with the DNA extraction, which you know, most students will have done. And then eventually you get to doing bacterial transformation, yeast transformation, controlling genes with um induction systems and so on. So in 2020, we had like that sort of basic unit uh that we were shipping out. And through the pandemic, we had um a lot of customers that were actually big universities and through BioBuilder and through other connections because you know the labs were closed. So they were getting their students to do their bioengineering 101 using our kits, which is um very nice to see because traditionally our users are high schools or they're uh at-home science fair students. So it was really awesome to see, you know, Stanford doing the same experiment as a 12-year-old. It was awesome for the 12-year-old, right? And it's the same content. So that was really great. And I think now in 2025, um, what's changed is that we have a lot more kids. So that's great. Um, but we also received our patent for the DNA playground in the ecosystem, which was really nice. And uh, we've really focused on the curriculum aspect of it. So also helping teachers teach and helping um students learn with free resources. So I guess another thing that we discovered during, you know, when everyone was remote, but also as Anino branched out into the world. So right now we're in 42 countries with our kids, but we learned that there's a lot of places that just either cannot afford the shipping of the supplies, right? Because you need to ship in a certain time. You can't just put them on the boat and get there like three months later because our little bacteria will die, right? So um, so we found that like the cost was a hurdle to a lot of um faraway places, as well as some just didn't have the facilities and you know, just all these different hurdles to getting started. So we found that free online content, some of which we worked on with BioBuilder, can really go uh a really long way. So we have our virtual simulators, the first one we collaborated with BioBuilder on, and it's a bacterial transformation. So you just learn how to do bacterial transformation on screen. It's like a drag and drop game, and I say game loosely. Um, so it's it's a simulator, it's pretty cool. Um, and now we have half a dozen of those, and they're used worldwide by I think a hundred thousand people have used them by now. So that's been really great.
SPEAKER_08:One thing I'm quite interested in in learning about is how the evolution of like biotech curriculum. Because, you know, I I started uni back in 2015, um, and a lot of that content is being taught in you know grades nine and ten. Um so with you know, every generation of college students, there's a lot new new curriculum. And in the biotech space, I've noticed it's gotten even more interdisciplinary. You have biotech students coming out knowing how to build software, uh, knowing stuff about lab automation. Um so I'm curious, you know, since we've last talked over the past few years, have have you noticed this as well? You uh I I'm interested in sort of the new tech being brought into the curriculum. Like, are you like are you talking more about machines, about lab automation, about programming? Um how has the evolution of the curriculum been? Now I know that is like a question that can we can talk about for five hours, but if you had to talk about it in like two minutes, what would you say?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so um I would say like our curriculum and what our students and teachers want to do has significantly evolved. So we still start with something as simple as painting with bacteria, which is loved by everyone. Um, and now we have making bioplastics. So as part of sustainable biotechnology, how can you create materials? So that has been a big um push that we've seen. So not only learning the lab techniques, but how do you apply it in like material science? And then with the bioplastics, you can also go to younger grades, um, which is great because it fits into the curriculum at different locations. So sustainability, trash, um, like the trash pathway. I'm not sure what they exactly call it, but it's basically the trash module. Um, so that's been really interesting for us. And then, you know, from these basic skills, they can do step-by-step work to get to genetic engineering. There's been some questions, but less than you would imagine about CRISPR. So, like in our world of science, CRISPR is like the next big thing. Everyone is like CRISPR this, CRISPR that. I this needs to be CRISPR, even though, you know, basically you could just do regular genetic engineering, it'll be fine. Teachers aren't really there yet. I would say the the mean of teacher is not there yet. They don't necessarily know about CRISPR. Their students don't know about CRISPR. So that was really surprising for us. I thought we should push to get a license to use CRISPR in our kits, but actually no one's ever asked. Like, no one cares, which is like, okay. There is one place that did ask us, okay, can you do you have it? And we're like, no, but if you do our engineeric kit, which is bacterial transformation, it's the same process. And they're like, perfect, because it doesn't, you know. So that was really actually eye-opening. But the real big push that we've seen then is there's some um demand for automation curriculum. And now biomanufacturing. Uh, I know biobuilder is also working on that. So we do a lot with biomanufacturing techniques and how does it uh come across in the real world and what are those jobs gonna look like, right? So they're a little bit different than maybe a lab tech. Um, if you think about that. So that's been interesting. And then, of course, everyone wants to throw the word AI into everything, right? So we do have a module where you can learn what AI is through um colony counting. It's super simple, but it's for those classes. Usually those are uh STEM um electives, if you will. So they're bringing in like more like a maker space type feeling. So it's not just biotechs, it's not just AI, it's kind of like mixing everything together. So we have that, but yeah, I feel like the a lot of the asks about AI are not like they're not really accurate in a way. They kind of want just want to throw AI, but when we start talking about Alpha Fold or that type of thing, it's like too far ahead for the students that we talk to. So yeah, it's kind of more buzzwordy right now for the AI aspect of it, which is fine. Um, you know, I on a side note, I've been hearing a lot of like students being like called in for plagiarism because the AI detector detected AI, and it's like, well, the teacher's using AI to detect the AI the students use and everyone's getting in trouble. And it's like, surely there's a better, there's a better, you know, way to work through that, you know, about learning how to use it. But yeah, that's outside of the biotech space. Actually, one thing that um on that note, one thing about the AI is that we work with a group here in um uh Canada called Mindfuel. They're the Science Alberta Foundation. And as part of, they have an IGEM-like competition called Canada's Tech Futures, um, which is mostly high school and collegiate. But one thing that they're doing this year is they're adding paper-based lab books, which is really interesting. Because you know, in your in your lab, most people will do paper-based lab book, but for iGem, it's usually, I don't know if they have a paper-based requirement, but there's the wiki. But this this time around, um, yeah, they're putting this competition, is putting uh some emphasis on having paper-based, which is really interesting because I think that's a reaction to uh different uses of technologies and different uses of AI that we've seen. So I thought that was cool. So yeah, so we now we have a a module on lab books. So that's been fun.
SPEAKER_08:From biotechnology kits to biomanufacturing curricula to AI that counts colonies so you don't have to. Julie's work reminds us that the best education meets students where they are, even if where they are is a high school megaspace in rural Canada. Uh speaking of enthusiasm meeting opportunity, our next guest is proof of what happens when a seed is planted early. Let's head to Boston University and catch up with Vanessa Murati.
SPEAKER_03:Hi everyone, I'm Vanessa. I was on season four of this BioBuilder podcast about a year and a half ago. I am currently a freshman in college, um, majoring, double majoring in neuroscience and psychology at BU.
SPEAKER_08:Fantastic. And what is so cool about this was the, you know, the podcast we did back in June 2024. We talked about what you're interested in doing. So you were like, you just started as a senior um at Pioneer Charter High School, and you were talking. We talked about sort of your love for bio and neuroscience, and you're hoping to combine that as a degree. And a year later, you're here. Yeah. Let's go.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, it's nice, it's nice. And I uh just actually declared my second major of psychology a couple days ago because I was talking with an advisor about it, and I saw that the courses would line up really well, and I was like, yeah, let's go for it.
SPEAKER_08:Nice, fantastic. And how has the first three months, three, four months of of college been? Um there's such a you know big jump from you know high school to college. Uh what have you what have you enjoyed the most? What have been some challenges? How how has sort of like, you know, you're studying because in high school you study your standard science, bio, math, etc., but it's such a different setup of curriculum in in college. So just curious about yeah, how how that first few months have been so far.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah. I mean, I really enjoy college. Um, I mean, I just like to learn, and so it's like it's really fun, especially, of course, the fact that you can pick classes, and so it's much more specialized as well. Like the kinds of courses I get to like plan for my schedule for the next couple of years are like so interesting. Like I look at them and it's like, and I won't be taking them for like two years, you know what I mean? Like the ones I'm already planning, but I'm like, ah, I'm so excited to take like this course on drugs and behavior, or I'm really excited to take this course on psychopathology or like things like this. Um, because they just sound so fun and interesting. And that's always what I was excited about. And so it's really fun to get to do it. And you know, we moved through like the autumn season and now we're in winter, and so it's fun to experience like more so living in the city than coming in for a day and then going back home. Um because I don't know, like when now when people complain about like, I don't know, like the green line shutdowns, which are like perpetual, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I I get it. Like, like I can't, like I have to take a shuttle bus to work, like yeah. Um, but no, yeah, I've been enjoying my experience a lot. It wasn't a a bit of an adjustment initially, I would say. Oh, like maybe the first couple weeks, but after that, I feel like it was pretty smooth sailing. Maybe because my high school was pretty difficult. And a common like statement from all alumni is they're like after like their first year of college, they're like, this is way easier than like 10th grade one.
SPEAKER_08:In in terms of some of the subjects you said, like what are you studying right now? What are some of the courses you've taken?
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so this semester, I'll actually, I mean, I'll pull up my uh schedule. I have like every single this is something I recommend actually. This was quiz time. The popcorn. This is something I recommend, actually. This was given to me by I don't know if you ever had Gungeon on your podcast. She was two years my senior in my high school. She did BioBuilder, and she gave me this tip of having just absolutely every course laid out as early as possible, depending on because especially if you want to do, because we have to do with BU, we have hub requirements. Um, and so we have to, it's kind of like Gen Ed, but you have more options for each course. So it's not like, oh, you have to take this math class and this social science class and this English class. It's more like you have to take classes that fall under these categories. So there's way more permutations, which is one thing I like about the approach to Gen Ed is like you have more options to do it. Um but her advice was to make a spreadsheet about it way early on, um, and then to just like reference that spreadsheet um of like all your major requirements, all your gen ed, and then all potential minor requirements, have it all calculated out. And then that's just like if you can calculate that sooner rather than later, it makes things really easy and it makes meetings with advisors really productive and it's a lot of stress off your shoulders. And of course, you get to make sure like you'll graduate fully on time with no issues. But yeah, that was one piece of advice she gave me, which I found to be really useful.
SPEAKER_08:Awesome. We've we've got a first hitchhiker's guide to bio. You know, Vanessa, I wanted to ask you about, you know, the future plan with this, you know, you've you've just started college.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:I see there's a lot going on already, and you're doing some really exciting stuff. How does sort of the next year or so look like? Are you looking at different labs? Um, just interesting in learning more about some of the research journey you're the next year in college, what you're what you're excited about.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. So there's one, and I don't want to say the name of the lab just in case it's like, I don't know, like bad luck, like knock on wood. Um, there's one lab that I found on campus, which I really, really want to work for. They're doing some really interesting stuff regarding diagnostics. Um, and they're also doing really interesting stuff with like a couple different disorders that are like commonly miscategorized. Um and so I'm very curious. But you can only apply to work at that lab after you've completed two semesters at BU. So that's my little project for the upcoming summer. But yeah, currently I'm also with a separate lab. I actually just had this confirmed. I and another BioBuilder alumnus, Nathan Kirokwa, were working on writing a um meta-analysis um regarding diagnostic criteria for auditory processing disorder. And we just got we're getting the details of that lined up with a lab. We're going to meet with our the PhD candidate who's advising us next week, and then also have an additional meeting with the PI of that lab to work on that process further. Um, so really excited about that just because it all it falls, I mean, the science behind like diagnosis and diagnostic criteria is really interesting to me, especially because like I know like to a lot of people to find out what's been causing your stress, like what like to be able to put a name to an experience is a really powerful and important moment. And uh so I find the science behind diagnosis really interesting, and anything that can make that moment more true and accurate to a person's experience, I feel like is incredibly important. And so, yeah, so that's one project I'm really excited about that starting to work on right now, and then hopefully the goal is for it to be full, like the like all the paper written like fully ironed out within a couple months, and then hopefully to send it to publishing soon after that, and then hopefully it's I'm not certain about the timeline of publishing. I can't say I have much experience with it, but hopefully I can go into sophomore year with it fully or almost done in the editing and publishing process, so fingers crossed.
SPEAKER_08:Fingers crossed indeed. Best of luck, Vanessa, with the paper. It's going to be spectacular. I know it. Our next guest is somehow doing biochemistry and economics, which I can only assume means he's trying to solve both the mysteries of life and the mysteries of why grad students can't afford rent. Please welcome back Presley Simulus, who's doing some amazing research work, also playing orchestra. He is just fantastic, and I'm really excited to have him on next.
SPEAKER_06:Hello there. Long time no see. I think it's been about two, maybe three years, um, and so much has happened since then. Um, and so much has changed. Um right now I'm a sophomore over at Swarthmore College and Swarthmore PA, and I'm really loving my time over here. It's um such an academically rigorous yet uh stimulating environment, and it's it's truly the place where I belong, and I just feel very at home over here. Um, my professors are incredible, and my peers are some of the brightest people I've ever met, frankly. Um, and it's an environment that really just embraces learning for the sake of learning, um, which makes me have no doubts in my decision to come here. Um over at Swarthmore, here at Swarthmore, I'm a biochemistry and economics double major. I think the biochemistry comes to no surprise to anyone, frankly. Um, but the economics major actually arose through taking some gen eds um in the econ department and really falling in love with the discipline. Um I think biochemistry and biology is still my first love, and I think that's what I want to pursue as a career, but um I can't say that economics doesn't interest me um in some similar ways. Here at Swarthmore, I'm involved with a few different things on campus. Um, my largest commitment right now is actually orchestra. Um, I've been a violist for some time now, and well, I'm a violist in the college's orchestra. Um, and it's it's truly such a rewarding experience. I mean, we're able to play music from so many composers. Last semester we played uh Shasukovich's fifth. Um, and then this semester we're playing the Planets by Hulse, and um, we're also performing Brooks Violin Concerto with uh concertmaster David Kim of the Philadelphia Orchestra. Uh so that's been such a demanding yet rewarding commitment here on campus. Outside of that, I'm also involved with our Students of Caribbean Ancestry Club, um, which is affinity, which is an affinity group that allows um for a feeling of a Caribbean community here on campus. Um, and it's like a piece of home that has followed me here to PA. Um, and as it stands right now, I'm actually looking for a lab to join. Um Swathomore has this honors program that allows students to really deep uh take a deep dive into a subject that interests them. And I would really love to write a thesis um on some micro or molecular biology topic. And so I'm looking for a lab that allows me to do that um either in the biology or chemistry departments. Um but since we've last spoken, um a few projects have um arose um that I've partaken in. Um the two largest ones are both at MIT, the first being uh a research project over at the Choi Lab at the PicAur Institute. Uh while at the Choi Lab, I was um working to uh visualize areas of CFOS expression in mice that have been infected with influenza. And that project uh was super exciting because um it could really lead to um some advancements in biomedicine and it just allows us to better understand how the brain may get involved with um immune responses. And the second project that I worked on was over at the case lab, um, over MIT's biology department. Um and while at the case lab, I was working to visualize areas of focal adhesion kinase um localization. And that's also super exciting because it's allowing us to um unearth the mysteries behind um the cell's um functions and motility. Um and I think if I I think that research that research allows us to also better understand cancer metastasis, which is obviously incredibly important. I think when we last spoke, I had aspirations of going to graduate school, and those still hold true. Um after my four years at S. Warthmore, I really hope to pursue a PhD in molecular and cellular biology and to contribute some knowledge to the field. Um, as to what I do after my PhD, I'm not entirely sure. Um, there are many career options I'm still um open to pursuing, um, some in biotech, some in patent law. Um, but frankly, I think being a PI and opening up a lab of my own um is the one that excites me the most. Um I I think I'm still the same scientist as I was those many years ago. Um, and I still have the same love and passion for biology um as I did when I was a high schooler.
SPEAKER_08:Thank you so much, Grisley. What I what I really liked, he he mentioned this the same curiosity that lit up his high school years, so bio. It didn't dim when things got harder. It just found more fuel. And that's what I really enjoyed uh talking to some students about. The interest they picked up during the program, during Biobuilder, during high school, the research questions, the late night lab sessions, the what if we tried this moments? They carry those forward into academia, into industry, uh, into careers we couldn't have uh predicted. Which brings me to my next guest, Yesenia Collins. Uh Yasenia interned at Sunflower Therapeutics, has a BSC in biochemistry, and has amassed the kind of research experience that makes the rest of us consider our productivity, at least mine. Um let's hear what she's been up to.
SPEAKER_04:Hello, this is Yesenia Collins. Um, thank you so much for asking to have me back. Uh when we last spoke, I was a first year at Georgia Tech and a new alum of the BioBuilder Program. And after that conversation, a lot has happened. Um I had the opportunity to work as a summer intern at Sunflower Therapeutics, where fellow Biobuilder alum Dr. Michael Sheets works. Um, and in that role, I was able to learn so much about synthetic biology, like in the industry sector in particular, and it also helped me to start developing my lab skills. Um I wanted to continue doing lab work, so after that, I started working as an undergraduate researcher at a lab that works with synthetic biology and biotechnology. Uh, the current project I am a part of is developing a biosensor that uses rolling circle amplification for the purpose of pathogen detection. We are writing a manuscript now, and we're hoping to submit for publication in the coming year, and I am super excited about that. Uh I've just finished my third semester in this lab, and it's just been such a fantastic experience, and I've learned so much. And uh, while I've been doing it for credit these past couple semesters, uh, next semester I'll be able to work for Pay thanks to the Pure A salary award that I applied for that Georgia Tech offers. Um currently I'm in my third year at Georgia Tech, and I am working on my Bachelor of Science in Biochemistry. I have been able to take a lot of really cool classes, and my favorite class this semester was definitely Biochemistry Lab. I really enjoyed all the experiments that we were able to conduct. Um I actually just wrapped up finals for this semester, so I am looking forward to what next semester is gonna have in store for me and those classes that I'm gonna get to take. Um, my next plans are to find an industry internship or REU for this summer. I'm also planning to pursue a PhD after graduation, and I have started investigating programs to apply for. And I just want to say BioBuilders was an incredible opportunity for me, and it really opened the door for me to discover what I'm really interested in, and it's really helped me to figure out what I want to do with my life. So thank you so much for having me. And thank you to Biobuilders.
SPEAKER_08:So many biobuilders who started as high school students have continued chasing the research interest they discovered through the program. And now they're doing that in research and academia and industry. It's genuinely fantastic to see. But students aren't the only ones who are part of this community. Let's turn to the educators, the ones who looked at the traditional memorize, regurgitate, forget model of science education and said, uh no, we can do better. Let's welcome back Jude Clapper, who has taught science in Taiwan, coached IGEM teens, and now back in the US. Heist High School is publishing in SinBio Journals. Publishing in high school. Welcome to Jude.
SPEAKER_07:Thanks for having me on. I was on season one of the podcast. Uh had a great time talking with you. Uh my name is Jude Klapper. Uh, I was a biobuilder, uh teacher, uh an IGEM teacher in Taipei, Taiwan, at Taipei American School for a number of years.
SPEAKER_08:So we talked in uh March of 2021. But yeah, we, you know, last time we talked, you were uh, you know, director of subscientific research there, you were teaching uh Taipei American School. Um, but now you're back in the US. Uh so I'm, you know, of course, this is something we can talk about for hours and end, you know, how how does science research and teaching and education look like in Taipei? How is that move coming back to America? Um, sort of the state of American high school science right now. So these are all, you know, you know, you can write a PhD on all of these topics. You could, yes, you can. But I will I'm just interested in sort of understanding the journey uh since we've last talked. Um so I'll I'll let you, this is totally unscripted. So I'll literally start off with, you know, the experience in Taipei like 21, 22, and sort of the what you're working on right now and sort of the science education space.
SPEAKER_07:Sure. Uh yeah, I I I felt very fortunate to be in Taiwan uh during the pandemic uh when when we last talked uh because we were able to continue our daily lives um w without a whole lot of interruption, uh, which meant that we were able to do science in our in in school. Um we didn't have to do science over Zoom a whole lot. Uh so we were able to still be in lab and and experimenting, which which was which was amazing. Uh I really cherished my time at TAS and uh feel very lucky to be able to have built um program that I built. Um however um with aging parents my my father passed away in 2020 while I was in Taiwan. I was not able to get home to see him or anything like that. And so the pool of of family brought um my wife and I and my two kids back to the United States in 2022. So not long after I talked to you on the last podcast, uh we moved back to the United States. Um so we moved back to rural Pennsylvania which is a huge change from the bustling metropolis of of Taipei. Um and so you know that that has been an interesting change. I I no longer have a research lab uh at my disposal and uh in my town is now 2,000 people instead of several million people. So uh it's been quite uh the change for my family and I and uh the the bacterial colony has size has been reduced.
SPEAKER_08:I don't know why to interrupt you to make that joke but whatever.
SPEAKER_07:Oh dude um yeah so um we we actually it going back to type A actually the the last time that we talked um we actually stopped doing IGEM at TAS after the 2021 um school year uh we still continued to teach synthetic biology uh I also had a class in nanotechnology and we had classes introductory classes in biology chemistry physics as well in the in the program there um but we found that IGEM shifted it changed a little bit uh rather than being the wholesome you know high school students come together all of a sudden they started introducing corporate high school teams that were competing with just regular high school teams and that became a bit it it lost some of the soul of doing research. Now all of a sudden it was doing it to try to be competitive and win these awards and all that sort of stuff rather than just be inquisitive search for answers, uh present on your results and and do the very best that that you can now all of a sudden we had corporations competing with high schools and it it didn't quite sit well with us. So we actually stopped doing IGAM in 2021 and we transitioned into hey why don't we do either group or individual projects and you know with with the plethora of resources like bioarchive or chem archive or these places where you can put your research out there and people can discover it, why don't we just do that? Make these preprints and maybe you can get your your research published in a peer-reviewed journal even just from a high school and so we we started doing that and uh particularly in my nanotechnology class uh several students were able to get their work published in journals like the Journal of the American Chemical Society or nanotechnology you know and these are high school students and we found that to be just as rewarding as going to Boston presenting in front of all these people et cetera um because it got us back to doing research because we were interested in what we were going to find and what what we could tell the rest of the world which was the main point in the first place rather than you know the awards are really great and we did really well but it's the the the whole point is to to to to be curious to try to search for answers uh to try to show that you're answering those questions validly and then communicating those results with with the rest of the world. And so now my successor uh Dr. Jonathan Shu who also worked with me uh on on doing iGem projects he's continuing that at TAS so his synthetic biology group he has you know a couple different groups working on projects and then they are they're still doing the same principles that they did in iGem and BioBuilder and and what have you but they're they're making preprints they're they're trying to get their work published in peer-reviewed journals you know just like any other research group that would be in a university or what have you so I I I liked that transition um that that we were doing we still wanted to do meaningful work um but we kind of wanted to get away from the competitive nature to win awards so Jude I wanted to ask you know it's been a few years since we've talked and you've you know developed so many curriculum curriculum curriculum I don't know all across the world uh in synthetic biology, biotech et cetera how has the curriculum sort of changed and developed over the past few years um do you see you know because there's so much happening every day when it comes to genetic engineering um you know with with CRISPR with gene therapy et cetera but also the computational side of things with you know AI and you know uh now you know when I was an undergrad bio students would not touch coding but now it's like non-optional you'd sort of need to know some how these programs work.
SPEAKER_08:And also um lab automation and machines and microscopy and all of you know analytical chemistry they're all uh bio's always been interdisciplinary but it's just such a core part of academia and industry as well um so I promise there's a question here. No, I I'm I'm following um but how have you sort of seen new tech come into bio um at least at a high school level um not only in Taipei but the past two years you've been been in Pennsylvania um that that is uh that's an interesting question I I think you know when I first started teaching it it always seemed like it was about how much content can you memorize and then spit back out to the teacher for this test.
SPEAKER_07:And then if you did really well at doing that then you progressed up to the next level um and it was all that way until until graduate school and then in graduate school they hand you a pipette and you know syringes and what have you and say okay go create and you were completely unprepared you know to to do that because your entire life you were about absorbing content, spitting it back on in tests and you say yeah I'm good at science. But but you weren't necessarily because you didn't actually do and you weren't taught that and so with STEM education uh in the 2000s and the 2010s it seems like that has really helped kids develop project based learning working with your hands testing ideas what have you um we're not fully there yet um I I would love to see an end to the AP uh systems to be honest with you uh because that's just more of the old school uh you know thinking where you're just trying to like absorb content and and spit it back out um but I I have seen an increase in project based learning uh in in curriculum in schools etc I think with the dawn of AI it presents uh a really interesting problem in that uh I think there are a lot of students now who are just taking papers throwing them into AI getting the summary uh and then just spitting that back out and so now they're not getting content or trying to learn content you weren't using your brain and and if they're not doing projects uh then then then it's even worse than than it was um or they're uploading their data into AI say analyze this show me the trends and and it does it but they don't fully understand what they're looking at and so they can't get pattern recognition or you know just trend analysis or anything like that and their brains aren't functioning they're just using the AI for that so I think that's a really tricky thing to try to figure out and I'm sort of uh like I I've been doing that as well uh putting papers into you know ChatGPT Claude getting summaries and you know I think because oh I have all of these degrees and experience I'm not gonna fall to the academic brain rot but no I you know as someone who's read so many papers been in science eight nine years I tried to read a full paper um of and I struggled I was like oh oh no this is bad um and it's the issue is it's just getting better I I had I saw some tweets about Claude Opus 4.5 um which you gotta pay I think 20 bucks a month as well for the pro version so I tried that out I asked it to write like a protein engineering um literature review it wrote something that's 10 000 words and incredible in five minutes this would take me a you know a month to write and I'm like oh my god like I if I'm an undergrad and I'm obviously gonna use this you're you're going to use it we we should use it but but how do we heat you know the integrity of the learning process intact is is a is a really big question because this is just new this is what three years old that since you know ChatGPT came out uh or so um it you know it's it's brand new but it is it's been so fast and it's been so revolutionary. Um you know I would have loved to have had this whenever I was you know coding Gaussian calculations to get you know x-ray crystal structures of just compounds and it would take two weeks to run that you know so I could get it back and now it would just take you know milliseconds you know to to run that DFT energy calculation and and get get my crystal structure you know based on whatever molecular vibrations you know so um the the real problem is re using ai to replace our own brain computing system because it's so easy to do. Yeah yeah it it is and I'm not so worried about maybe my generation because you know I at least we did learn you know how to uh you know expand your brain and and build those neural connections but but for my kids you know my son's 10 he loves science but I see him already asking Alexa or asking you know AI you know how to how to do things and he just talks to the room and the room talks back to him you know because everything's connected now and I wonder what that's doing to his um to his process yeah MIT came out with the study what two three months ago about how it affects brain usage and it's bad right you know so evolutionarily I'm interested to see what happens well I'm not gonna be around but uh I if I could time travel I'd love to see what happens in 200 years. Maybe it's good to not be around then I I wonder you know because you know my I think about my parents talking about you know I I f I rewind myself back to my son's age and I hear my parents talking about oh the doom of society because the internet's coming out and all that sort of stuff. So but I mean that's that's the nature or you know we are one human experiment and the nature of science research is that it's going to be messy in the middle and we're right in the thick of the messiness. We're trying to find direction and a lot of people have a lot of different ideas but there's no there's no clear pathway or channel at the moment.
SPEAKER_08:Thank you so much Jude um as you can tell Jude and I are quite passionate about certain things and we can sometimes go a bit off tangent but I think the the core the core motto of Jude is really you know stay curious, strive for the truth uh and search for answers. And I really like the point Jude makes about problem-based learning, about about moving beyond content regurgitation towards genuine inquiry. And next I want to bring on someone whose journey embodies something I think is essential to understand about biology today. It's not linear it's not siloed it's beautifully chaotically interdisciplinary. So let's have a chat with Hannah Shinzawa who's a second year material science student at MIT and her path has included physics, bicam, synbio, nanotech, and probably a few disciplines that don't have names yet let's hear from her so hello my name is Hanna Shinzawa I was on season four of the podcast I am currently an undergrad at MIT studying material science and engineering and I'm super excited to be here. Woo awesome well thanks Hannah for for joining us it's it's so great to great to see you uh really enjoying these sort of this this episode that we're doing I had someone from season one in earlier today um five years ago and now I had someone just you know we it's I mean a year and a half is a while but but it's it's it's so it's it's you know fantastic to reconnect with so many people um and I I remember the last time you talked um you you know hadn't declared your major you were just starting out um and we even talked about you know the Biobuilder Club that you did where you built built a yeast-based um biosensor uh for I think detecting salmonella yeah so it's you know that's been a while ago and I I'm just interested in learning about your journey the past year how's it looked like because what what are some of the big decisions that have happened um in some of your professional career definitely the decision to commit to material science because I mean that wasn't something that I knew at all coming into college.
SPEAKER_05:I'd never heard of material science in my life but um like the one of the first things that I did here was to get a research position. And it was really just luck that I happened into material science. It was just like that was kind of what was open and available for you know an incoming freshman and so I had a ton of fun um I was working on nanoparticles. So basically we'd have these gold nanoparticles you would attach polymers and then you have charge groups at the end. So you could end up with a set of like positive particles and a set of like negative particles essentially and then you could use electrostatic like attraction just to kind of assemble those into ordered crystal structures like how you would see like atomic structures. It was very cool like I've I've never seen any work like that before but I had a lot of fun doing that last year. And then I kind of got more into kind of like semiconductor like thin film space um over the summer I had an internship in Mexico through one of MIT's like study abroad programs which is very cool. I was working on like thin film deposition which I really liked. And so that kind of got me thinking like okay like I kind of want to do this like back back home back at MIT. So now I'm in a different lab and I'm working on depositing lead films electrochemically. So definitely kind of a range of different things but it's it's all been super cool. It's all been super fun.
SPEAKER_08:I'm I'm really really like happy so happy to hear like a lot of the interesting stuff you've been I mean super interesting stuff that you've been doing with just not only at you know at college but overseas as well. Hey that's that's that's fantastic. So I guess you know uh a a part of the this whole this whole podcast that we're doing uh this episode number 42 is you know a bit of a hitchhiker's guide to biobuilder. So what I I guess you know putting you on the spot here what are you know what what are some of your, you know, now that you you've you know it's been a while since you've done the Biobuilder Club uh and you're now um you know you've now done research at MIT and overseas what are you know some of the skills and sensibilities that you've learned over the past year that you would tell an incoming freshman or someone who's just finishing up high school um it doesn't you know directly have to be related to biotech but just in general just some research skills that how about actually let's make this easier what would you tell your your first year self you know young uh you know the the first year Hannah just walking into her first class what would your advice be to her thing yeah take your time perfect perfect I would say just be super super open to like new experiences because I I know like my like journey like that's definitely has been not linear.
SPEAKER_05:Um like this is very different from synthetic biology very different from a lot of the things that I had envisioned myself doing in high school but I feel like just every time you get kind of like a cool opportunity it's something like say like wow I'd like really like to try that out. Even if you don't have the background for it like even if you've never had experience with that before I would say just go for it. I mean I feel like it's super important to just try new things like get out of your comfort zone. And a lot of the times the people like offering you these opportunities are like super super happy to kind of like help you along the way. So for example when I was coming into my freshman year I had I had some experience with research like through Biobuilder but like this was like totally different like I was in lab like every single day in like kind of a new field entirely. And so at first I was kind of nervous I was like well like I don't know anything about nanoparticles like I've never done anything like that before.
SPEAKER_08:But kind of just having that like confidence and like that ability to say like okay like I don't really know 100% what I'm doing yet but like I'm here like I'm really excited to learn about this like just kind of like being open to that like admitting that and then I feel like that helps you have so many like experiences that you wouldn't otherwise have the chance to get fantastic yeah yeah I think it's yeah I think people need to I think that's fantastic that you've sort of kept an open mind in a way because honestly undergrad is sometimes the only time you can really keep too much of an open mind because you know you don't have to Yeah, it seems like you have to make some big decisions, which you do, like declaring a major and all of that. I took ages. I think I changed my major three times. Oh my gosh. Yeah. But that's the point. I I think it's it's to like keep doing different different things in undergrad when you can. Um what drew you to sort of like the material science space?
SPEAKER_05:I would say definitely my like um research experience freshman year, because like coming in, like I I had no clue like what does a material science do. But then the more that I like kind of looked into it, I really like the way that you kind of get to think in material science because it's a lot of very like a conceptual understanding. So for example, I had my like mechanics class this semester. And so a lot of the things we'd be thinking about is like, okay, like why is our material behaving this way? And I think it's super cool, like how you can kind of like back out these really fundamental concepts, like literally just like kind of sitting there, like thinking about it. Um, for example, there was one story that our professor told us about like discovering kind of like how or like how you kind of deform materials. And so there was this one theory that like you would be like breaking like all of the bonds like between every single atom in like a plane of materials, like and slipping them past each other. And like that was how kind of like this deformation like happened. Um, but when when they tried this in the lab, they were like, well, shoot, like we're applying a lot less force and like this is still happening, so we we know it must be something else. And so this was before like you could kind of like actually see this process like with microscopy, but like literally just by like kind of conceptually like thinking about this problem, um, scientists were able to discover like there's actually like a different mechanism going on, like there's there's like dislocations and like defects like within the crystals, and you can actually like slip those along. And so I thought it was very cool, like how you can kind of just like you know, like sit there and be like, well, like if I were crystal, like what would I be doing? I feel like that's kind of a really unique way of kind of like thinking about science. Like it's very fun, it's very intuitive. Um, I r I really like, I really like it.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah, no, fantastic. I you know, I never got the chance to really, you know, the closest thing I've come to materials would maybe be like DNA nanotech, DNA origami stuff that's sort of in you know, in space.
SPEAKER_05:Well yeah, that's also something I love because it's so so broad. Like you have like material scientists that like studied it through their whole whole degree, but like my PI in my lab, like he studied physics and he's here now. Like I think it's super cool, like all the different people you get to interact with, like all the different like subject matter you can go into. I think it's very, very exciting.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. No, that's that's fantastic. I think um, and thank you for like taking the time to really articulate that well. Um it's you know, I I go back and I like I wish I like did engineering in undergrad. Like alongside like a biotech degree. That that I think could have been fun. Um awesome. And uh the last question I'll ask is what are you which you're in, I can't remember, second or third year?
SPEAKER_05:Second year.
SPEAKER_08:Second year, yeah, that makes sense. And it's a four-year degree. Nice, awesome. So I guess so what I want to ask you now is what do you what does sort of the next year or two look like for you? Because obviously you've got around two-ish years left of the undergrad degree. You're also doing some really amazing research work. Um, what are you really looking forward to research-wise uh the next year?
SPEAKER_05:So I'm very excited about this summer. I like I literally just got the email like yesterday um about an internship that I applied to. And so I'm very excited for that. Um because this is like the first time that I'm gonna see like anything from industry. Like I've really, I really love like the academic labs that I've been in, but I'm like, well, like, I mean, that's kind of like the big choice at the end of undergrad, right? Like, do I want to like keep keep doing this for like five more years, go to grad school, or do I do I want to try to like, I don't know, get a job. So I'm very excited to see like kind of what that looks like. Uh something I never tried before. And then also something that I've like kind of unexpectedly got interested in is physics. Um over the summer, I was at um Synvestab in Mexico. And so when we were talking about depositing thin films, like you get down to like very, very like nanoscale. And then at that point, like it kind of all turns into quantum, and then I was like, well, like I kind of need to need no like quantum if I want to do these materials. And so potentially looking at kind of getting more into like physics stuff, adding that into the degree, minor, double major, we'll see. But definitely exciting stuff.
SPEAKER_08:Hannah's path is a beautiful reminder that the most interesting journeys rarely follow a straight line. But here's the thing about journeys like Hannah's, they don't happen in a vacuum. Somewhere along the way, there's usually a teacher. And that brings me to our final guest, who's been a teacher for 30 years, and 15 of those has been with BioBuilder. 15 years. That's not a curriculum adoption, that's a partnership, a co-evolution. Very excited to welcome the final guest on this podcast, Joanne Purdy.
SPEAKER_00:Hello, my name is Joanne Purdy, and I'm sharing where things are at with BioBuilder and myself right now. I've been working with BioBuilder since 2011. And since then, I've taught a lot of students and I've taught a lot of teachers. And without any doubt, BioBuilder has by far been one of the greatest journeys and experiences of my career. I've been teaching high school biology, AP biology, and some chemistry for nearly 30 years. And I still feel that biobuilder is that one thing that has really been rejuvenating and has kept me going and fresh for such a long time. One of the things that I think has changed a little bit in how I approach the biobuilder curriculum is that I used to spend a lot more time explaining some lab technique. And it was it was time consuming. And I find that I don't need to do that as much anymore, but I can give students a procedure, show them a few things, and let the productive struggle unfold. And students are really, really capable when you allow them to, you know, kind of figure things out on their own. And what this gives me more time to do is to spend more time on the what's next and what are the results of the lab that we just did. And it's the other side of inquiry and the other side of engineering, in that students made predictions that the cells were going to do this and these cells were going to do that. And some of them do, but then other ones don't. And what does that mean? And what does that mean for the cell? And if you were engineering these cells yourself to do something important, which, you know, by very definition is what synthetic biology is, you know, it's using the tools of biology to solve problems for us. And I think that I spend more time on that part of things. And students really feel the impact of that. And I say this a lot, that overwhelmingly with the biobuilder curriculum, the biobuilder labs. I find overwhelmingly that students say, I feel like a scientist. I feel like a real scientist. Can we do more of these labs? And I find every way possible to squeeze in as many as I can and make them connect to the biology and AP biology curriculum as much as I can.
SPEAKER_08:So many voices, so many journeys, one very special episode. You know, when I started hosting this podcast, I thought it would be more about plasmids and pathways and the mechanics of building with bio, and it is to a certain extent. But somewhere along the way I realize it's really about something else. It's about the people. People who look at a lab and see a canvas. People who believe that a kid in rural county deserves the same access to biotech as a student in MIT. People who caught the spark early and have been running with it ever since into labs and lecture halls and industries we're only beginning to imagine. People who understand the future of science depends not on what we teach, but also on what we help students discover. People who know that curiosity isn't a nice to have, it's the whole point. People who have a bit of a zigzagging career, interdisciplinary, gloriously non-linear path. And that reminds us that biology doesn't stay in its lane. It spills over into material science, into physics, into art, into economics, into everything. Because life itself doesn't respect boundaries, why should the people studying it? We're living in a moment where science is under pressure, where misinformation spreads faster than peer review, where funding is uncertain and the challenges climate, disease, equity are immense. It would be easy to feel overwhelmed, to panic. But here's the thing, I've spent the past few years talking to Bibleers, and I'm not worried. Because the people coming through this community, they're curious, they're rigorous, they crave, they're kind. They understand that science isn't just about being right, it's about asking better questions together. So if you're listening to this and you're a student wondering if you belong in science, you do. If you're a teacher wondering if this work matters, it does. If you're anyone anywhere who's ever looked at a living system and thought, I wonder how that works. Congratulations, you're one of us. Keep asking questions, keep building, keep being curious. Thank you to everyone who's joined me, students, teachers alike, for this podcast episode, and thank you to everyone at Biobuilder for making this community possible. And thank you, yes, you for listening. Happy New Year, everyone, and I will see you at the next episode. This has been Life Changing Science, the Biobuilder Podcast, and I'll see you next year.